Adult daughter giving birth

sonny · April 2006

I KNOW this has come up before, but a quick look and I can't find it. . EE's adult daughter who is out of state is expected to deliver in early June. Have letter from daughters Dr. "Jane will need to be her for about 2 weeks around the time of deliver to help care for her daughter in the post partum period."

Would you allow the FMLA?

NaeNae55 · April 2006

This is a good question. We would have let mom off, even without the doctor's note, because we are real sweeties. ;;) In fact, we would have just counted it as regular vacation time and not bothered with FMLA.

For a larger organization, I would have wanted to know if the daughter is alone with no one else to help (where is baby's daddy?) The doctor's note may preclude that though. What do the other forumites say? Can we hear from one of the lawyers?

Nae

sonny · April 2006

More facts. . we try to be sweeties too x0:)
and she will be allowed to go. It will just be whether or not she has to use all vacarion or can use some of her sick time.

LindaS · April 2006

Under the federal FMLA, a child is defined as someone under the age of 18 or someone over the age of 18 with a disability. Since pregnancy is not considered a disability, this would not qualify as FMLA leave. That's not to say that I would not grant the individual some time off and allow them to use their vacation and in the absence of that, maybe some type of LOA without pay but I would not grant the time under FMLA.

Whirlwind · April 2006

Ditto. We would not apply FMLA.

As far as sick leave, our rule is you must have a physician's statement as to the medical necessity of the absence to use more than three days of sick time. So we wouldn't question three days, but she would have to get a doctor's note saying the daughter needed care to use any sick leave beyond that. Failing that, she would have to use vacation or LWOP.

sonny · April 2006

Thanks Ladies.. as soon as I read the responses it flashed backed to what I had read here before and couldn't remember. This chronologically gifted stuff sure effects the memories. Thanks again.

AnneHa · April 2006

We're also sweeties about this stuff.

My daughter (in NC) is due to deliver my first granddaughter five weeks from today. I will be using vacation time for the postpartum job I'll be handling. Baby's daddy is right there but kind of terrified (in a manly way, of course) and will feel better if I'm on board. I never considered this to be FMLA in the least.

Anne in Ohio

VS · April 2006

We had an employee who requested FMLA to care for her adult daughter who was to give birth. We tried to deny under the Reg. that states that a child must be under 18. Didn't work. The child must be under 18 UNLESS he/she is incapable of self-care. Guess what. . . self-care is defined as needing assistance in performing three or more "daily living activities", which includes grooming, hygiene, bathing, dressing, cooking, cleaning, shopping, etc.

I don't know about anyone else, but we now have employees going to the doctor for colds and coming back with Med Certs stating the multiple visits plus prescription meds are FMLA. We are stuck. A "serious" health condition is defined as impatient care OR continuing treatment by a HCP. Continuing treatment is defined as "treatment two or more times by an HCP, or on a least one occasion that results in a regimen of continuing treatment (i.e. prescription meds). HELP! How do control this. We have made our inquiries with some pros (not attorneys) and we are told we can't do anything about it. Any advice from anyone? Thanks!

atrimble · April 2006

>The child must be under 18 UNLESS he/she is incapable of self-care. Guess what. . .
>self-care is defined as needing assistance in performing three or more "daily living
>activities", which includes grooming, hygiene, bathing, dressing, cooking, cleaning, shopping, etc.

Typically, a hospital won't release mother/newborn if the mother can't care for herself and the newborn. If the mother had a c-section, she's obviously not going to be able to care for herself, let alone a baby - i.e., she's temporarily incapacitated/disabled. That's where the additional support references in FMLA come into play, in my opinion. If there is no one else in the household to take care of the disabled family member and a doctor certifies that our employee is needed to provide that support, we approve sick leave under FMLA for the period of incapacity. If grandmother wants to stick around for another week after the post-partum disability, then she gets to burn vacation, since no one is technically sick. But if mother/child are released in a normal manner and there is no post-partum disability, then grandma's whole absence comes out of vacation.

And I disagree with the statement above that pregnancy is not a disability. By itself, no it isn't, but the condition may create other serious health conditions that qualify for protection under FMLA that wouldn't normally occur without pregnancy. So when I hear "we're pregnant" I automatically start checking accommodations and refreshing my memory on regs.

stilldazed · April 2006

We would not allow FMLA unless the adult daughter is an incapacitated adult/dependent on the mother (which I would question if the daughter lives out of state).

If the daughter were under 18, different story, but I would stick with the FMLA guidelines on eligible family members. You don't technically have an employee missing work for the birth of her own child. You have an employee wanting to miss work to care for her child during her child's medical illness.

Through our sweetie approach, we might allow scheduled vacation if staffing provisions were adequate and best wishes for a great experience, but no FMLA protection.

LindaS · April 2006

The federal FMLA regs. state that time off work to care for a child is defined as a child under the age of 18 or one that is over the age of 18 that is uncapable of self-care DUE TO A DISABILITY. A disability is defined under the ADA. That being the case, a pregnancy is NOT a disability defined under the ADA and therefore, pregnancy in and of itself does not give an individual protection. That being the case, an adult child who is pregnant/just given birth would NOT grant the parent of the pregnant person time off under the FMLA. The regs. (federal) do not say that time off work must be given to a parent of a child over the age of 18 who is incapable of self-care due to a serious health condition.

To the responder asking for assistance regarding colds, etc. the regs state that a serious health condition is defined as inpatient care OR a health condition requiring MORE THAN three days off work PLUS treatment at least two times by a health care provider OR treatment on one occasion that requires continuing treatment. That being the case, a person missing work one or two days for a cold would not qualify under FMLA regardless of the fact that they were seen by a health care provider.

mbeam · April 2006

You raise a good point Linda. Although this is a bit off the subject header, the three days that the individual is out, does that need to be business work days? We thought it was 3 days which could mean someone who goes home sick Friday and is still out Monday with the same illness would qualify. How do you treat this?

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

VS · April 2006

Thanks for all of the replies. Learning more everyday.

LindaS · April 2006

The three days is calendar days, not work days.

System · April 2006

I think it could be FMLA if the daughter is unable to care for herself.

I remember a case back in 2001 where a court said that caring for an adult daughter with pregnancy complications could qualify for FMLA. Navarro v. Pfizer Corp.

And I found a more recent case where the adult daughter was pregnant without complications so no FMLA. Cruz v. Publix Supermarkets. You can find articles about both in the Subscribers Area of HRhero.com.

Good luck, Sonny.

James Sokolowski
HRhero.com

stilldazed · April 2006

Thanks for the research. I think you have raised a point that most HR folks don't want to have to address. FMLA is hard enough as it is without more opportunities for exceptional thinking.

Adult daughter giving birth

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